tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.comments2010-04-23T19:13:14.603-07:00Template LaboratoryRichard Beckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06500628452135216019noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-19610037820318494282010-04-23T19:12:43.184-07:002010-04-23T19:12:43.184-07:00test comment #2test comment #2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-26602314053861728182010-04-23T19:10:48.849-07:002010-04-23T19:10:48.849-07:00test commenttest commentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-49276955682978539332007-11-08T21:27:00.000-08:002007-11-08T21:27:00.000-08:00Sorry I can't be in this class on Sundays. It look...Sorry I can't be in this class on Sundays. It looks very interesting. <BR/><BR/>I like the concept. It agrees with what God does for Abraham in the context of his ancient Sumerian background. The ancient gods being rather capricious and not prone to communication with other human beings - God rescues Abraham first and foremost from this horror by communicating with Abraham, which in and of itself was part of this rescue from horror. Secondly, Yahweh communicates that he is not like other Gods - who were apparently in some cases actually calling for child sacrifice.<BR/><BR/>For a god to demand child sacrifice on the part of a worshiper was probably not foreign to Abraham. A horror to be sure, but not foreign. And yet, God in his own majestic and mysterious way, through the event with Isaac on Moriah communicates to Abraham, and even to the rest of the world, that he is not a God to be feared. <BR/><BR/>No child sacrifice is necessary after all. In fact, God even provides the animal to be given. <BR/><BR/>Over and over again, God communicates that he rescues us from fear. And in fact, it may be fear that is the antithesis of faith and not unbelief after all?<BR/><BR/>What do you think?Lee Keelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291515557968459342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-55036555926535119462007-06-23T05:42:00.000-07:002007-06-23T05:42:00.000-07:00Are we not limited by our own intellect to speak o...Are we not limited by our own intellect to speak only what we believe about God, regardless of actual truth? To speak differently than our awareness permits is literally making things up, isn't it? Everything we believe about God is based on our current understanding of scripture and our own faith experience. Once removed in time from any faith experience, we have great difficulty proving God's existence or activity by any words, whether in the realm of what we can say about God or what we can't say about God. The blind beggar who was healed by Jesus could not prove to the Jews that Jesus was from God, but his own faith experience convinced him that whatever Jesus said, it was reliable. To those without his faith experience, no proof could be accepted which would show Jesus to be the Son of Man. No argument was valid in proving the true identity of Jesus. Our only recourse is to be blind apart from our own faith experience and current understanding. Past that we tend to make God in our own image. John 9:35-41 is so descriptive of our condition. It ends with Jesus telling the Pharisees;<BR/>"If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."<BR/>Our understanding of God within our faith experience can not be an adequate proof to the world that God exists at all. Boiled down, I think it is only love touching another person which first promotes faith, then introduces God. We have been negligent in our love, and therefore ineffective in our evidences of God.G'ampa Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16066861336939496824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-46687423683069943842007-06-14T06:22:00.000-07:002007-06-14T06:22:00.000-07:00glc06b,Great stuff. Rollins, in Chapter 3, makes ...glc06b,<BR/>Great stuff. Rollins, in Chapter 3, makes a very similar move to the one you are making here. He speaks of speech about God being "iconic," similar to Gilbert and Brock's word "symbolic." That is, our language is <B><I>pointing</B></I> to God rather than <B><I>reducing</B></I> God to verbal categories. As I've read recently, in the words of Gillian Rose our language is always "falling toward" God.Richard Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06500628452135216019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-20119198334138727452007-06-13T20:18:00.000-07:002007-06-13T20:18:00.000-07:00The following is taken from the introduction of "T...The following is taken from the introduction of "The Holy Spirit in Counseling, Vol. 1 Theology & Theory", by Marvin Gilbert and Raymond Brock.<BR/><BR/>"Theology (Man's words about God) describe God as ultimate; He transcends the realm of finite reality that we inhabit. Thus, no finite reality can express God directly and properly. Whatever we say about God of to God needs to have special meaning and is often best expressed symbolically. Tillich (1958) stated that God must be expressed symbolically because symbolic language alone is able to express the ultimate. The langauge of faith is the language of symbols.<BR/><BR/>But modern Man is becoming "symbol-less." Westerner civilization prides itself in what it calls being "free from superstition"; much of that pride is good. Pragmatists like William James defined a rational way of reasoning and problem-solving. This has helped to lead us away from the errors of a superstitious way of thinking. However, the modern Westerner does not understand the extent of the grip of "rationalism." Rationalsim has destroyed our capacity to respond to our own psychic needs for symbolic thinking, and indeed, for symbols themselves.<BR/><BR/>If we have lost the capacity to react to symbols and to use symbols, then we are at the mercy of a technological world that has dehumanized the spiritual realm. Our moral and spiritual tradition is disintegrating and we now pay the price of separation from the universe around us."<BR/><BR/>In this sense, when I say "God" I do not mean to delineate what God means but rather I refer to that entity of God above and beyond what I may know or think about him. We know that we cannot fully know God. As we come to know God better, we learn how poorly we indeed know him. However, we can still express the entity of God by using the symbol of the word, "God."G. Coffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03992695318800575832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-18547921966434517472007-05-30T13:33:00.000-07:002007-05-30T13:33:00.000-07:00Good stuff. Thanks for the response.I thought I ha...Good stuff. Thanks for the response.<BR/><BR/>I thought I had worked through a lot of these world views from my upbringing, but years of wiring are hard to undue.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110110820960758201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-11889866156438779162007-05-30T10:59:00.000-07:002007-05-30T10:59:00.000-07:00Eric,That is a good question. Heim's focus is nar...Eric,<BR/>That is a good question. Heim's focus is narrow (i.e., saving us from scapegoating violence) leaving lots of stuff on the table.<BR/><BR/>I guess you could go with one of two ways (or hold them in tension).<BR/><BR/>1. Still retain aspects of the PSA model which focuses on a "personal" salvation.<BR/><BR/>2. Adopt a participatory and eschatological notion of salvation, where "salvation" is increasing participation in the life of God culminating in the Eschaton. <BR/><BR/>The difference between #1 and #2 is the classic tension between justification (I am saved) and sanctification (I am being saved). The NT seems to hold both visions in tension. My only point here is that we may have leaned too heavily on justification in the past. That is, we may wish to reclaim notions of sanctification, where my salvation from vice (the stuff in your list) is a process rather than a discrete moment in time.Richard Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06500628452135216019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-46634031746980857762007-05-30T07:32:00.000-07:002007-05-30T07:32:00.000-07:00Richard,This has been a great class so far. Thanks...Richard,<BR/><BR/>This has been a great class so far. Thanks for taking this on. I had some questions from last week's class regarding salvation. <BR/><BR/>Through this paradigm, the cross saves us from human violence. That seems to me to be a very communal atonement. As we view the cross with this lens, what/where is our personal salvation? Where does our salvation from greed, pride, malice, idolatry, etc. come? Is that accomplished through confession? Baptism? The cross?<BR/><BR/>Just curious how this would tie into Heim's theology.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09110110820960758201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-15234482014184300692007-05-29T19:51:00.000-07:002007-05-29T19:51:00.000-07:00Hi Bob,That quote is right up the ally of our new ...Hi Bob,<BR/>That quote is right up the ally of our new June study <I>How (Not) to Speak of God</I>. It's a great book. I'd highly recommend you getting a copy as you follow along with the study.<BR/>RichardRichard Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06500628452135216019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8920818197103133558.post-3972059384389681262007-05-29T08:46:00.000-07:002007-05-29T08:46:00.000-07:00This post, and our struggle to wrestle God to a po...This post, and our struggle to wrestle God to a point of a comprehension, keeps reminding me of a Brian McLaren quote that has been helpful to me:<BR/>“We are especially prone to this idolatry of ideology and idolatry of words, and I think there is a certain sense that our atheism is a desire to disbelieve the words we keep saying about God because we know God has to be better than those words." <BR/>Its a good struggle to have. I am moving in the next couple of weeks to Lubbock to start medical school, so I am especially thankful for the blog so I can keep up with the class.Bob Boothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05691029018824468656noreply@blogger.com